Energy Beat Podcast

Diverse Supplier Series Part I: The Journey of Phil Croskey & MD Energy Advisors

AESP Season 3 Episode 4

Phil shares his inspiring journey in establishing MD Energy Advisors, emphasizing the importance of perseverance, customer service, and effective networking in entrepreneurship. Through his experiences over the years, he highlights key strategies for navigating challenges, fostering relationships, and achieving profitability in a competitive market. 

• Journey from a small startup to a thriving energy solutions company 
• Emphasizing cash flow management and early profitability 
• The role of networking and associations in business growth 
• Customer service as a cornerstone of MD Energy Advisors' success 
• Insights on navigating the political landscape for future opportunities 
• Importance of hiring and maintaining a positive company culture

Jen Szaro, AESP:

Jen Zarro, CEO and Co-Foundfounder of MD Energy Advisors, and he's going to share his insights from his journey establishing his business and seeing it grow. Welcome to the podcast, Phil.

Phil Croskey, MD Energy Advisors:

Thanks for having me, Jen.

Jen Szaro, AESP:

So tell us a little bit about you and about MD Energy Advisors.

Phil Croskey, MD Energy Advisors:

Sure, MD Energy Advisors was founded in 2010, but prior to 2010, when we started the company, I'll give a little bit of background on myself. I spent several years in personal finance with a Fortune 500 credit card firm in Wilmington, Delaware which, of course, was the home of credit cards in the mid 2000s to director of economic development for the city of Baltimore. So I had a corporate background along with a quasi public sector background where I ran economic development for the city, responsible for about over three billion dollars of transactions related to the tax base there in the city of Baltimore. From there, you know, it was an interesting ride. I had done corporate and I had also done kind of, you know, public sector and we were looking for a new challenge and that's what led us to start MD Energy Advisors in 2010.

Jen Szaro, AESP:

Wow, that's awesome, and so how many partners or founders do you have in?

Phil Croskey, MD Energy Advisors:

2010. Wow, that's awesome. And so how many partners or founders do you have? So it's three partners, and, coincidentally, we all work together doing economic development. We were colleagues in all actuality. I was their boss and that kind of led us to, you know, starting the company.

Phil Croskey, MD Energy Advisors:

It was a different environment for me after coming out of corporate America, going into the public sector my colleagues now business partners we were like we could do a little bit more. I had taken on the task of starting a 501C3 while working on behalf of the city, and so that gave me a lot of confidence that you know we could pursue an entrepreneurial dream, and the idea for the company came out of believe it or not a newspaper article that was written in 2010 about the deregulation of power, and from that newspaper article that my partner Jason brought in to my office. I said I think this is a good idea, and one thing I knew from my previous background that anytime there's a deregulation of an industry, there are opportunities there, and that we set out on our path with $10,000 and a lot of hope and dreams to really build this thing called Empty Energy Advisors.

Jen Szaro, AESP:

And that's such an amazing story to hear and I know that's a struggle that a lot of other diverse suppliers will relate to. So in those early days you know, whenever you make that kind of a change, especially in maybe an uncertain market, what were the challenges or things that were keeping you awake at night.

Phil Croskey, MD Energy Advisors:

Yeah, I mean, as you know, when you bootstrap a company and start it very organically, cash flow is. Cash is king, right, and cash flow is super important. One of the things that we did early on to help mitigate some of the cash flow crunches, because people say, well, how do you start a company with $10,000? One of the things we did was we kept our nine to five jobs with the city for two years, so there wasn't an immediate jump. We have this great idea.

Phil Croskey, MD Energy Advisors:

What we wanted to do was prove out the business model to see if it works, and so you know, again, I like to say, our nine to five job was our first investor in the company and so, yeah, so we took those, took that time to really, you know, really understand pressure, test the business model and make sure that you know we were equipped to do the job of taking this on full time. And, you know, once we figured out we have enough just to kind of, you know, keep the bills paid, we took the leap in late 2012. So we had a two-year runway of trying to figure the business out.

Jen Szaro, AESP:

I mean that's a great approach. I think that's helpful for other people to hear too. Basically, you had two jobs for two years. It sounds like.

Phil Croskey, MD Energy Advisors:

Exactly.

Phil Croskey, MD Energy Advisors:

Wow, that must have been tough but it seems like that worked for you.

Phil Croskey, MD Energy Advisors:

Yeah, I think so.

Phil Croskey, MD Energy Advisors:

I think it was one of the things that I look back and we'll say that's probably one of the best decisions that we've made was to really just focus in on getting the company profitable and spending less time looking for outside capital.

Phil Croskey, MD Energy Advisors:

I talked to a lot of young budding entrepreneurs and one of the pieces of advice I give them is you know, try to get on the path of profitability, because you can spend as much time looking for investors, but you can take that same time and really, you know, focus on getting your business model sound, getting customers, getting to profitability, and so one of the things that I look back so it's finally now. I mean, it was rough in those early years. I would say probably for the first six or seven years of the company. Cash flow is tight, but we didn't have the pressures of investors telling us how to run the business and one of the things and I think that's important for folks as they pursue their journey you know how are you wired and we were more wired to be very independent and autonomous to build the company and the culture that we wanted to build, without any outside influence.

Jen Szaro, AESP:

And that makes perfect sense to me, and I have, you know, bumped into several entrepreneurs that have these startup companies, and that's the exact decision you know they're facing right now is do I go after you know, getting some additional support from an investment standpoint, or do I just grow the model, make sure it works and sounds like the latter is really what has worked well for you all.

Phil Croskey, MD Energy Advisors:

Sounds like the latter is really what has worked well for you all. Yeah, and I'm sorry, jen, just one point there. I think for us, because we were a services based business, that worked. We didn't have a lot of widgets to produce. I think if we were producing technology or software or something to that effect, the outside capital makes sense. But for us, as a service based business, we figured if we can just continue to bring on new customers and profitable new customers, it'll be a longer race but we ultimately will win the race.

Jen Szaro, AESP:

So, in thinking back, would you say today's market is easier or more difficult from a financial perspective in starting your own company like this yeah, you know, wow, it's really hard to say.

Phil Croskey, MD Energy Advisors:

I would say it's a little bit.

Phil Croskey, MD Energy Advisors:

It's a little easier in the fact that there is money funding more climate initiative startups, more climate startups.

Phil Croskey, MD Energy Advisors:

However, at the same time, there just needs to be a very judicious approach in who those partners and investors are within your organization. And so in some respects it is easier because there's more money out there that's attracted to more climate ideas, climate businesses, climate focused businesses. But at the same time, you know some of them are just looking for a return and are they really invested with the mission and the goals of your organization? And so there's there's a double edged sword that you know cuts both ways. So in some respects it's easier, but in some respects it's harder because you know, once you have that money, you are beholden to those investors to some degree and ultimately they will want to return, and so will you have the runway. Will you have the time to really develop and nurture your product or service in a meaningful way in order to really garner that traction, or will you be forced to liquidate or sell or make moves that are not in the best interest of the organization because of the investors? So it cuts both ways.

Jen Szaro, AESP:

That makes sense, yeah, so let's talk about building your network up. You're starting out with your new organization. I know you've already been in the corporate sector and the public sector, so hopefully that helped you. Was there a network you could tap into back then and to help you open doors? And then what does the networking landscape for you look like now?

Phil Croskey, MD Energy Advisors:

Yeah. So there was absolutely zero network for us coming out of personal finance and then the public sector. We did have I did have a network in the public sector, but as it relates to energy, we didn't have much of a network. And you know, I think one of the challenges that probably would have kept us up that also kept me up beyond cash flow I should mention was that you know there's a little bit of do we know enough to be successful in this business, and I think all entrepreneurs face that challenge of do I have what it takes to really take this company to the next level. So, as it relates to network, it was a very organic approach for us and it's still we still utilize this to this day.

Phil Croskey, MD Energy Advisors:

It's getting a part of, it's getting, you know becoming a part of associations like the AESP. You know it's, you know being a part. We are also members of the American Association of Blacks in Energy. We are also, you know we're also in associations and organizations that service our clients. We do a lot of work with commercial office buildings. So we're members of NAOP and BOMA and other organizations. I feel as though, if you really want to create a network, getting involved and active within organization provides that runway to really get to know people within your industry and that was really a gift for us in being a part of so many organizations early on and going to the conferences and meeting people and having dialogue. I will also caution, though. I also tell folks don't go and be a part of organizations just for a transactional business. Go to add value and the business will come.

Jen Szaro, AESP:

Right. So I mean, I think I see that often where people will join an organization like ours but they're hesitant to be active in the organization and so they're not getting the full value of that relationship opportunity, relationship opportunity. So we always tell people dive in, get active, figure out what your passion is within the organization and find a way to contribute, and then you'll start to build your bridges.

Phil Croskey, MD Energy Advisors:

Absolutely.

Jen Szaro, AESP:

We think that's so important, you know, as a function of what we do, and I know Abe and others you know feel the same way. Yeah, so tell us what other, like, what other strategies do you have for for building out the network, um, beyond associations, are there other things that that they should be doing as well, other diverse suppliers?

Phil Croskey, MD Energy Advisors:

yeah, so I'm a part of a climate mastermind group with other ceos. Um, that has been tremendous for us and although we're in the climate industry or energy industry, everyone's doing a little bit of different things within that industry and just again, that ability to have a really intimate relationship with 30 or 40 other members of the cohort where you meet monthly, you brainstorm ideas, you discuss some of the challenges that your businesses are facing Huge, and so we really have enjoyed, you know that from a networking standpoint. And I think that the last thing I'll say, you know from a networking standpoint is really just, you know, finding a mentor. I mean, I think one of the most underutilized platforms is LinkedIn and I have gone as far as to identify a mentor.

Phil Croskey, MD Energy Advisors:

There was a firm that was downsizing and I reached out to some of the folks that I saw that were in transition and found a mentor via LinkedIn. A cold email, jen, via LinkedIn saying hey, you have a lot of experience in this industry. We're a young company, you know, we're still, you know, want love to know if you'd be interested in consulting and like just creating that relationship with this individual. A consulting relationship has, you know, really almost doubled our business because of her network and her tutelage and knowledge within the industry. So I'm always one who's seeking out help from various individuals and making sure that I'm in the room. Sometimes people associate with learning with being in a classroom. I learned by being at the table in the room or part of a group.

Phil Croskey, MD Energy Advisors:

I love that.

Jen Szaro, AESP:

Yeah, I mean I also participate in a CEO group to help nonprofits and it's life-changing to have that kind of support and peer network. And then the idea of a mentor I'm all in on that. I think it is the way to grow your understanding, you know, for someone who has those historical perspectives to share with you. So bravo for taking that effort. You know you took a roll of the dice to go try to find someone on LinkedIn and it worked out for you. I agree with you LinkedIn is a powerful tool if you put it to good use. Absolutely Big fan. We haven't.

Jen Szaro, AESP:

We do have an industry network for LinkedIn, for AESP, I think it has about 6,000 members now and I'm always amazed that more people don't use it in that way, because that's definitely the intended purpose. So let's talk about getting to being profitable, crossing that chasm, as they say in the industry. Yeah, being profitable, crossing that chasm, as they say in the industry. Were there moments that, while you were crossing the chasm, that helped you get to that next step? Or, you know, did you have any moments of doubt where you were like I'm not sure this is going to?

Phil Croskey, MD Energy Advisors:

happen. Moments of doubt oh my gosh, I still have moments of doubt. Jen, yeah, you know, definitely had a lot of moments of doubt. So one of the things that I don't think I knew, going in on how long it would take for you to really kind of hit what we would call pay dirt or really, you know, see that inflection point within the organization, for us it was roughly around seven, almost 10 years. It was roughly around seven, almost 10 years, not that we weren't profitable, but we were profitable at a scale where we could really, you know, expand the business. So I'll give you some some, some a sense of kind of where we were In March of 2020, everyone kind of knows where they were. When, you know, the pandemic hit, we had 11 employees in March of 2020. Fast forward, and that's 10 years after the start of the business. Fast forward to today. We now have over 70 employees within the organization, so that's exponential growth in four years.

Phil Croskey, MD Energy Advisors:

And so when people talk about these journeys and it's no such thing as an overnight success, we definitely adhere to that, because it took 10 years for us to really get to a sizable small business. I mean, we were kind of, you know, we were profitable along the way. But you know, we made some tweaks and focused that mentor when I talked about doubling it. That mentor helped us quite a bit, and so it just takes time. It really does take time. I think everyone thinks that I start a business today and within 24 months we're going to be overly profitable, and sometimes it doesn't work like that. What you want to see in this journey in my opinion, jen, is we talk about crossing the chasm is incremental growth, year over year growth, and we've always had year over year growth, whether it was a 5 percent or 10 percent growth. It was yours, and so we saw that, okay, we were moving in the right direction, and I think that's super important for entrepreneurs.

Jen Szaro, AESP:

That's a great message because I agree, it's easy to get discouraged if you're not immediately successful, but I mean, that's what it takes to move forward. So patience, it sounds like, is a key criteria for success and creating a business like this. So let's talk about what you're working on today. You're in a unique position today because your company facilitates energy procurement. Company facilitates energy procurement. Are there any inside baseball lessons that you can share with someone who's starting out that you wouldn't pick up in a classroom or a webinar? Those real world experiences right, that's how you learned. So what would you say to others?

Phil Croskey, MD Energy Advisors:

Sure. So we have two sides to the business. We have our utility solution side and our commercial solution side. So think of our work with the utilities in implementing their demand side management programs. But then there's also what we call our private sector, our commercial solutions, where we help, you know, decar buildings and help them purchase electricity in deregulated markets and really help them facilitate reducing, you know, their demand, energy demand.

Phil Croskey, MD Energy Advisors:

But, with that being said, one of the things that we saw were gaps in the marketplace in our industry was customer service, and so when we were working with our private sector commercial office building clients, one of the things that we tried to do is we always say if we were fast food, we want to be Chick-fil-A. If we were retail, we wanted to be Nordstrom's. We wanted to wow them with customer service. And we wanted to wow them not because we wanted to impress them with our service, but we also wanted to wow them because we needed them to tell another colleague in the industry, someone that they know hey, you might want to use these MD Energy Advisors guys, because they're really really good. And so, customer service, what we is really kind of been, you know, our hallmark, is really wowing the customer.

Phil Croskey, MD Energy Advisors:

We like to say we're a customer service company delivering energy solutions, and we hold true to that, like we really want to make sure our customers leave with a positive impression of the work that we're doing. We really want to help them understand what's happening with their buildings or their facilities and help them really understand energy, because we take it for granted that we know energy, but we found that a lot of people you know very few people really understand all the line items on their utility bill. So it may start there helping them understand here's how much you're spending, here's what can we do, how can we make your building more efficient in the process. So I would say, you know, customer service is really the one thing that has really helped us along the way.

Jen Szaro, AESP:

Yeah, I mean you had me at Nordstrom's service. Yeah, I think you're spot on. To me, that does, in my opinion, make a company stand out. For me. You know, when you have that good experience and you know they're going to take care of you not just because they want your business, but because they want to see you have a positive, successful experience, I think it makes all the difference, honestly. So that's a great message to share with people.

Phil Croskey, MD Energy Advisors:

It does. And the last thing, I'll just say that it's funny like you, the older you become, you really value to your point customer service. My kids love Chick-fil-A. I can't tell you how much I love it. But you also go back because you know when you say thank you they're going to say my pleasure, and when they don't say it, you're kind of like what's going on here?

Jen Szaro, AESP:

Yeah, what happened to you? Someone missed your training class. Totally Well, tell me a little bit about the different segments we talked about you working in commercial and utilities. Are there distinctions?

Phil Croskey, MD Energy Advisors:

between working with government agencies versus more commercial facilities, and then the utility businesses that are important to understand before you go after a new opportunity. Yeah, I think it's important for businesses, especially entrepreneurs and those who are kind of on their journey, to understand the sales cycles with each and the various nuances on how to sell through to each. The sales cycle sometimes for government could be maybe a little bit longer than maybe a private sector client, but the nuances for dealing with a private sector client are different. In the fact of a lot of times they want to understand, kind of you know what's the capital outlay that I'm going to need to make in order to fulfill my goal or to for this particular service. So you have to begin to speak in a language that's meaningful for them. With utilities, same thing. It's really understanding, kind of you know what are some of the needs, what are the needs of the utility, what are they looking for, what value do you bring to the utility? So it's really just understanding.

Phil Croskey, MD Energy Advisors:

I think we we learned early on. You know government and utility RFPs. They come out. You know quite a bit, but there has to be a relationship. It goes back to relationships, right, you know quite a bit. But there has to be a relationship. It goes back to relationships, right, there probably needs to be a relationship prior to the RFP coming out with that particular utility. There has to be some groundwork that's done prior to responding to the RFP. So that's why I think it's always helpful to really continue to build your network, to continue to you know, make sure people know who you are, and if they don't know who you are, they could call someone and they can do a reference check to say, hey, we got this, you know proposal from MD Energy Advisors. Do you know them? What do you think about them? Do they do good work? So your reputation means a lot, but the networking is super important, even when you're going after, you know, government or utility RFPs.

Jen Szaro, AESP:

Yeah, that makes total sense. Do you actively pursue getting on vendor lists for organizations like that as a way to kind of get your foot in the door for when they do have an RFP coming out?

Phil Croskey, MD Energy Advisors:

We do. Yeah, we absolutely do. We definitely try to get out and get our name on vendor lists. And then I think it's also important to have some diversification. I failed to mention that too because I know I've seen a lot of companies really just focus on we're going to respond to these RF business and a utility solution side of the business, because we've always wanted good diversification because of the ebbs and flows in the market. So you know, sometimes utility business is growing and it's growing rapidly, and then sometimes the utility business slows down.

Phil Croskey, MD Energy Advisors:

We have the commercial solution side business right now. Building print and energy performance standards and decarbonization is really picking up for a lot of these commercial building owners. So that's keeping us a lot really busy right now. So I think it's important to have a little bit of both. But to your question, yes, we do get on the list. We understand that the sales cycles can be a little bit longer and so we want to begin getting on the list and then nurturing those relationships, setting up those meetings, doing introductory calls with these vendors and these partners, potential partners, and just kind of introducing ourselves. I think again, it's important and I mentioned this earlier to develop and nurture the relationship and not be so transactional. I'm a big relationship guy and I look at business as 70% people. And then the 30% is like what you know and how well you do it. But if you can't crack the people code then it's going to be hard for you to be really successful in business.

Jen Szaro, AESP:

I love that. Yeah, I mean, I'd much rather do business with someone I want to spend time with and hang out with, identify shared values. I think that's so important. Yeah Well, we're talking about networking, so let's let's dig in a little bit more to that.

Phil Croskey, MD Energy Advisors:

Let's say you go to an ASP conference or event. How do you prepare for that to help build your network? Really good question, jen. I start by looking to see who are some of the other attendees there and going back to what I said, which is the underutilized platform. I mean, you know Meta and Instagram gets all the pub, but I think for business folks, linkedin needs to be the most important tool. So I start by getting or looking to see who might have access to whoever the attendees also attending the conference. You know, reviewing some of their LinkedIn pages, I might sometimes message them vis-a-vis LinkedIn or, if there's an app for the conference, maybe via the app for the conference, just to say, hey, love to meet you while I'm there, maybe grab a coffee, set up some meetings.

Phil Croskey, MD Energy Advisors:

I think that pre-work is so important. You just can't show up and expect you know something to drop in your lap or fall in your lap. The other thing I do to Jen is really see who within my network I know who's going to be there, who may know some of the people that I'm trying to get to, to see if I can get a warm introduction to someone I'm trying to get to. So that's the great beauty of LinkedIn. People know who you have kind of the shared connections with. So, doing that groundwork to say, oh, I'm trying to get to Jen, but I know that you know Paul knows Jen. So let me ask Paul, hey, paul, you know Jen. Hey, when we get out to you know California at the conference, can you give me an introduction? And so that's a great way that some of the tools that I use when going to networking events.

Jen Szaro, AESP:

I do the same thing, so those warm introductions are gold for me, because you're now building trust with that new person. You're trying to build a relationship with, you know, by having someone in common. So totally love that approach. So how do you make yourself stand out, though, in a room, especially with larger organizations? Is it just the, is it the relationship piece that you go after? I mean, I know, when we go to our conferences, we have organizations of all shapes and sizes there. Some bring you know two people, some bring 30. So how do you help yourself stand out as a small, diverse business among a sea of many bigger organizations?

Phil Croskey, MD Energy Advisors:

Yeah, sometimes it's just, you know, trying to get on a panel. I always recommend for small businesses, if you can speak on a panel, provide a keynote. I think that's huge, that gives you a captive audience or a room to speak to. So I would say, definitely try to leverage a speaking engagement with some of the organizations if you can. The other thing, too is just I don't know, Jen, I don't do, I don't do kind of hokey sales gimmicks too well, I'm just, I think it's just being genuine.

Phil Croskey, MD Energy Advisors:

If you see someone just walk up and introduce yourself, hey, how are you, how are you doing? Phil Crossy, tell me a little bit about what you do and ask questions. I think it's funny, in school You're never really taught how to network Right. It's something that you kind of just have to learn by doing. You're kind of like thrown in a fire and for some people it's, it's daunting, it's intimidating, Like how do I stand up? And so you know, it's really just kind of you know putting yourself out there.

Phil Croskey, MD Energy Advisors:

And I think what something goes unsaid too when it comes to networking, Jen, which is, you know, making sure that your energy level is at a point that, because it can be exhausting Right, that you have good energy. You got a good night's rest like little things. I got a good night's rest. I didn't hang out the night before all night with some of the colleagues at the conference because I know the next day I need to be like those things you got to be ready for and prepared for. So it's just for me. It's just kind of being genuine meeting people, exchanging business card. Follow up on the back end is also extremely important as well. So I don't really have a golden ticket per se to how to stand out per se, other than just try to be yourself and put yourself out there and be warm and personable with folks.

Jen Szaro, AESP:

I love the idea of just authenticity you know, being who you are telling your story. I think is so important for people I know I am definitely put off by kind of hard sales pitches the first time you're meeting someone.

Jen Szaro, AESP:

It's uncomfortable for me. It's probably uncomfortable for them too, you know. And again, it does not build the relationship that you want to build to make people comfortable with you. So I think that's really smart. I mean, that's why we always at our receptions do things like put games around the reception areas, give people an opportunity to organically engage with each other. I think helps build those relationships for sure. So tell me about marketing. We all have to do it. It's expensive, it's time consuming. What do you do on the marketing front to help yourself stand out as you build your brand? You know, what do you not do, especially as a small, diverse supplier?

Phil Croskey, MD Energy Advisors:

Yeah, so we've tried every marketing idea known to man. We first started out this is going to sound really, really crazy but we used to put like little post-it notes on businesses doors to say, hey, give us a call. We tried everything. I mean this is this is over 15, almost 14,. 13 years ago we were guerrilla marketing campaign, so that's what we were doing. Didn't work, of course, but but one of the things that we do today, beyond kind of the networking piece, we try to sell without selling.

Phil Croskey, MD Energy Advisors:

I think right now, as you know, selling sometimes gets a bad connotation. So what we try to do is we try to highlight the company. I mean, one of the things that I'm so grateful for and fortunate is that you know we have a great company of over 70 plus really good human beings. So we have something which is our guiding principles, called the MDEA way, and our first guiding principle is be a good human being, and we try to highlight our people and our company on LinkedIn. So I had one of our clients recently come to me and say I don't know what you all are doing over there at MD Energy Advisors, but your people look happy, it looks like a great company to work for and, in turn, I want to continue to do business with you guys and tell others to do business with you, and and that's that was music to my ears, because by by him just following us on LinkedIn and seeing kind of what we're doing, what we're doing, the diversity of our team we just won an award, a woman's award, for empowering women, by one of the papers here in the state of Maryland and we're proud of that. And so, for us, sales is also just kind of just showcasing who we are and that authenticity that we talked about earlier.

Phil Croskey, MD Energy Advisors:

And I think people want to be a part of something that they feel is going places. Whether they're the employees, whether they're clients, whether they're partners, they want to be a part of something special. In this day and age, I think everyone's looking for, you know, a tribe, a home, somewhere where they feel you know that they're going to be appreciated and respected, and so I think a little bit that's kind of how we go about selling. I mean it really is. It's not, it's not the hardcore. Hey, you know, cold call everyone. I mean we do some of that, but a lot of it is, you know, let's get out, let's build these relationships. Let's highlight via LinkedIn kind of what we're doing in the community and for the people and, believe it or not, the phones ring just from that.

Jen Szaro, AESP:

I love it. Yeah, community is so important to us as an organization and this is exactly why I mean that's how you build relationships, I think, and that's how it gives you that opportunity to really tell your story. You know we talked about LinkedIn a few times now. I mean, that's to me, a wonderful outlet for marketing. You know what you're working on and who you're working with and why, and what your success looks like as well. I know I'm constantly looking for case studies on there of things that we're working on to try to understand who's doing what. So getting your story out there, I think, is really smart.

Phil Croskey, MD Energy Advisors:

Yes.

Jen Szaro, AESP:

So we talked about sticky notes on doors and stuff being maybe the best approach for you specifically. Anything else you would have done differently in retrospect as you developed your organization.

Phil Croskey, MD Energy Advisors:

Yeah, you know it's funny, everyone has a different way of learning and my learning is always by doing and failing. And so, you know I I always say I'd never want to live with regrets. So nothing comes to mind that you know, because we learn from everything that we did and and value out of it. I think the one thing I would say we probably have learned a lesson as it relates to hiring is you know we wanted to hire and grow, you know, faster probably than we probably should have. And you know we kind of cut corners on some of you know some of our hires early on, maybe not doing necessarily due diligence, maybe trying to. You know, hire people at a low rate, thinking you're going to, you know, have them grow into the organization or grow into the position Probably should have done a little bit more due diligence around our hiring practices early on.

Phil Croskey, MD Energy Advisors:

But that's just. You know what young companies do. You're so excited to bring on someone and you know they may be, you know, maybe fresh out of college or new and not have a lot of industry. No, they'll grow into it and ultimately you find out that you know it's ultimately not a good fit. So what's the old adage you know, hire slow. So that's one bit of advice I would give.

Jen Szaro, AESP:

I like that hire slow, yeah, because it's like you said, it's a family, it's a community you're building, and even within your own organization. So making sure you find someone who matches not just with the skill set you're looking for, but also really with those cultural values, I think is really important. So we just had an election Thinking about.

Phil Croskey, MD Energy Advisors:

We did.

Jen Szaro, AESP:

You know we expect the landscape will change for the clean energy sector, especially for efficiency and renewables to some degree. How are you thinking about that? And you know how has it maybe shifted your thinking on your strategy for the next four years?

Phil Croskey, MD Energy Advisors:

Yeah, yeah, it's. That's a really good question and it is the topic of the day and we're still kind of processing everything that's happened within the past week or so. You know, I think I have I told my team this the first of the month that I'm going to, I'm going to be grateful and take on a very optimistic viewpoint, no matter who won the election, and I'm going to still try to hold true to that and really just and say you know, the old I guess it's the's the Winston Churchill, never let a crisis go to waste. I think in every situation there's an opportunity. I don't know what that opportunity is just yet, jen, with this particular situation, but you know, the pendulum always kind of swings back, and so I'm just going to try to remain positive, encourage others in the industry to remain positive and do what we can, because you know, I'm here on the East Coast and we just experienced some 80 degree days in November and that's not normal.

Jen Szaro, AESP:

I mean we we've got a hurricane in November here down in Florida.

Jen Szaro, AESP:

That's pretty nuts and you know, I think we're going to continue to see those types of climate trends happen, probably worsen as we go. So I agree, I think it is. You have to look at it as an opportunity to maybe mix things up or think differently. So I'm glad to hear that I think that a lot of folks maybe right now to your point, are still processing what this means from a change standpoint for them. But I kind of agree, I think there's there's opportunity in every situation and you just have to figure out how best to to tap into that.

Jen Szaro, AESP:

You know, I think it'll be interesting to see what happens with the Department of Energy, specifically from a federal standpoint. But there still is, so much as you can, as you can attest to, being driven by, you know, commercial organizations, large, large corporations. I don't think that's going anywhere and honestly, I don't even think that the utilities are going to slow down in their investments in renewables where it makes sense for them. So I don't anticipate quite the level of change that I think some others are concerned about.

Phil Croskey, MD Energy Advisors:

I would, I would agree with that, I would agree and I would think too. I think too also, a lot of the, a lot of the initiatives are going to be driven at the local level for the foreseeable future. If, if it's, you know, federal government is being a little more resistance, some of the things that you know we're all witnessing and seeing I think the local level in some states and local jurisdictions are going to drive.

Phil Croskey, MD Energy Advisors:

And I think it's important for us in this industry to be at the table for some of those conversations at a local level. We can you know, I have always the same control, what you can control and sometimes we're always looking at the federal level and sometimes we can have more of an impact right in our own backyard. So that's one piece of advice I would encourage. I know that some of the things that we're looking at is you know, how can we be influential at the state level and the local level for the work that we do?

Jen Szaro, AESP:

I love that approach. I think that makes perfect sense and you know, and people are more connected at the local level. You've got the opportunity for job creation. You've got the opportunity to help you know, these smaller communities especially make a change, make a difference for their constituents as well. So, yeah, I think we've got lots of opportunity. We just need to work out what it's going to look like. And certainly not the first time there's been a shift in our markets.

Phil Croskey, MD Energy Advisors:

Exactly.

Jen Szaro, AESP:

So you know, I think we're all looking at the long game and, you know, making good decisions based on things that, based on things that matter for us and for the people we serve. Resilience is not going to go away, in my opinion. I think resilience is critically important, local job creation is critically important and helping businesses save money is really important. So none of that's, in my opinion, going to be lessened by the situation. I think it's just how you approach things might change.

Phil Croskey, MD Energy Advisors:

Agreed.

Jen Szaro, AESP:

Well, phil, thank you for spending your morning with me. As a fellow East Coaster, I appreciate your time today and really enlightening conversation. You've got me so excited about what can happen, when you really put your mind to it, with growing a small, diverse business. I'm super impressed with the progress you've made and with your humility as well. Like it's, it's been a wonderful conversation, so thank you so much for being with me.

Phil Croskey, MD Energy Advisors:

No, Jen, thank you for the opportunity this morning and I appreciate the conversation and we will, as we say, onwards and upwards from here.

Jen Szaro, AESP:

That's right, awesome, okay, thanks.

Phil Croskey, MD Energy Advisors:

Thank you, we'll see you next time.

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