Jen Szaro, AESP: 0:08

Welcome to AESP's Energy Beat podcast. I'm your host, jen Zarro, and today we're recording live in the Suncast studio at RE Plus in Anaheim, california. I'm joined by Paul Douglas, president of the JPI Group and co-founder of CareerEquity, for a timely discussion on energizing the next generation of clean energy workforce. We're very excited to be here today. I'm Jen Zarro, I am the CEO of the Association of Energy Services Professionals, and with me today is Paul Douglas, the president of JPI Group. Paul, you want to quickly introduce yourself.

Paul Douglas, CareerEquity: 0:45

Sure, good afternoon. My name is Paul Douglas, the president of JPI Group. Paul, you want to quickly introduce yourself? Sure, good afternoon. My name is Paul Douglas. I am the president and CEO of the JPI Group. We provide energy efficiency and workforce development support across the country. We're one of the largest minority-owned companies in the space, with close to 300 consultants and working in 38 states. I'm excited to be here today to share our experience.

Jen Szaro, AESP: 1:05

And you've got some good ones.

Jen Szaro, AESP: 1:06

I think there's a lot to learn from your experiences so far and as the clean energy sector continues to expand thanks to significant state and federal funding, we have to step up to meet the demands of those projects and make sure that we can actually get the infrastructure out there that was intended to be released with the IIJA funding and the IRA funding. So today we're going to talk a little bit about how we staff up and staff up kind of at warp speed to make sure we can meet all of the program requirements for these programs. So I'm going to start by just talking about JPI Group first and how you're helping move that along and how you're helping different organizations that you serve meet the Justice 40 requirements, specifically for relevant federal incentives. So we're going to talk a little bit about that. We're going to talk about how we create high-paying jobs in this industry, not just entry-level boots-on-the-ground jobs, but high-paying professional jobs as well. So start by telling me a little bit about JPI's approach to tackling the workforce demands in the clean energy sector.

Paul Douglas, CareerEquity: 2:10

Awesome. So I always like to start off by giving maybe a personal story. So, as I mentioned, from Baltimore City I'm not sure if anyone else here is from Baltimore. I think it's 45 degrees back home right now. So I'm excited to be here on the West Coast.

Paul Douglas, CareerEquity: 2:23

But I had the opportunity when I was a freshman in college to join a program called En-ROADS, and many of us may not know what En-ROADS is, but En-ROADS is a program that's focused on helping minorities African-Americans, hispanics to get jobs in corporate America, and I was lucky enough to be part of a workforce development program at age 18, which is the only reason why I probably stand in front of here today at this podcast.

Paul Douglas, CareerEquity: 2:44

So I give that background to kind of maybe show where the passion and the mission comes from for our company, so JPI Group as a whole. We have a mission to decrease the wealth gap and I tell folks all the time that this opportunity right now in the energy sector is a once in a lifetime opportunity. The amount of money, the amount of funding that's happening right now is right in front of us and many of us have no idea that it's happening. So we're focused on making sure that we provide knowledge. We do community outreach and we educate the folks that are unaware of what's happening, not just the job seekers, but also small minority women-owned companies that they need to know what's happening today in the industry. So, jpa as a whole, again, we support these utility projects.

Jen Szaro, AESP: 3:28

We support implemented projects by making sure that we're inclusive, we're bringing in small, minority-owned companies to execute on, whether it's solar, energy efficiency or battery storage projects across the country, historically underrepresented. What you don't often hear about is a lot of these programs require community benefits, funds and programs to go with the local community where you're distributing this funding. It's sort of an afterthought. There isn't often a solid plan in place for these local communities. So how would you say, because of that, this influx of state and federal funding is really shaping the clean energy sector's workforce needs, and how do we make sure we're not missing that piece of it in these local communities, to make sure we're building up these communities and creating local jobs and not just kind of bringing someone in and doing the work and then leaving?

Paul Douglas, CareerEquity: 4:17

Got it. So I've done a lot of research on the community benefit plan and the Justice40 plans and the one thing that I'm not concerned is when you use the term benefits. Benefits is a very vague term that we get thrown around often. So I take the approach of what are the true data that we can track to ensure we can see success right. So when I look at community benefit plans and Justice 40, I think number one around job placement, like how many folks actually got the job? Not, they were trained. Because what happens? A lot of these funds come in and folks are trained but they don't receive the job. Number two is how many small or minority owned companies actually get communities. Were they trained? So are we training individuals in just solar? Are we training individuals in just energy efficiency? Because what happens if we train them in solar and they don't get a job in solar? They get a job in another sector. Then the training was for nil. So we have to make sure that we're training individuals and they're getting the job in the sector that they're supposed to get the job in.

Paul Douglas, CareerEquity: 5:20

We track wage growth because if I train you, you were making $12 an hour. I don't want you making $13 an hour. That's irrelevant. So we really track the wage increase over time. I don't want folks to get jobs I say all the time they need to get careers so we're putting folks into opportunities where they have a trajectory for growth, not to make $30,000, to make six figures, because that's what it takes to be successful. Those are the. When I hear community benefit and Justice40, I try to maybe make it a little bit simpler. What are the actual data, the metrics? How can I see success? And the one thing that I tell a lot of our clients and I tell a lot of our constituents is make sure you're measuring where we are today and where we are in the future. Right now, I think there's a lot of money that may come in that we may not measure the success for our concerns.

Jen Szaro, AESP: 6:04

I do really worry about that. I mean with Justice 40, the rapid nature of getting these funds out there, especially before the next election cycle, I think, is putting a lot of pressure on not just the folks within the White House and the OMB, but also on those in our industry that are trying to gear up fast enough to be able to do this. And I know with us we received, you know, some funding to do some training for demand flexibility, and I was dismayed to see how kind of not clear the methodology was for tracking your metrics and your progress, and so we really struggled with that and it wanted to make sure we were reaching the right audience, but found that the data that was available through the economic justice screening tool that they've created for this wasn't giving us the answers that we needed, unfortunately. So anyone here done marketing, you have to do paid ads with zip codes. You can't do it based on census data. You have to have zip codes to be able to purchase ads.

Jen Szaro, AESP: 7:04

Do it based on, you know, census data. You have to have zip codes to be able to purchase ads, and what we found in our work with this as a major issue of identifying the right community members is they don't have that data. It's not a layer, so we actually had to go out and create that. So that's just one example of a pain point of one grant recipient trying to do something. Tell me, what advice would you give to clean energy providers who are struggling to find qualified workers for their projects related to Justice 40 and just in general, to get these projects done quickly and effectively and meet the metrics? That was really meant to be about.

Paul Douglas, CareerEquity: 7:38

I'll maybe try to share a story. I think this was maybe two or three years ago. We worked with a PSCNG. Pscng is a utility that's based in New Jersey and they wanted to hire close to 65 field techs and energy auditors to support their residential and commercial program. I think what happens a lot with these workforce programs is we may not realize the amount of work that it takes. It's not a one-to-one ratio. You don't talk to one person that one person gets the job. We had to talk to thousands of people to screen hundreds to hire 60. And sometimes I think we don't think about the effort that it's going to take to be successful. We just assume the money comes in. You train two people, those two folks get the job. It's a lot of work.

Jen Szaro, AESP: 8:22

And then if you're hiring as a full-time equivalent, like an FTE employee, you've also got the institutional knowledge that you have to then educate them about for that organization. So culturally they also have to understand that piece of it and be onboarded. And I know you have some great onboarding tools through your equity tools. So tell me a little bit about that tool specifically and how you help usher in this next generation of clean energy professionals into a workplace like that.

Paul Douglas, CareerEquity: 8:50

I'll stick with the PSCNG example. So we had to hire, train, develop 60 people. It took us 3,000 phone screens, hundreds of interviews to hire those 60 folks. What we also know is that when you do a workforce program, you have trainers, you have wraparound services, you have employers, you have small business, you have unions, you have a variety of stakeholders involved and when those stakeholders are involved there's a lot of data that needs to be collected and that's normally collected in SharePoint Excel emails.

Paul Douglas, CareerEquity: 9:21

So we realized not only was the program difficult, it was also difficult for us to track the data that was needed by the governor's office and by the utility. So we built out a software tool that allowed us to at least gather the data from all the stakeholders. So the nonprofits knew that they referred over six people, the career training organization knew that we trained an ex, the employees knew that there was ex-minded people available. So that helped us at that point in time to kind of grow and scale the people available. So that helped us at that point in time to kind of grow and scale. We're starting to see across the country that a lot of the sieges, the California action agencies, the NYSERDAs, the mass saves, they're all realizing we can't keep doing this manually.

Jen Szaro, AESP: 10:00

Yeah.

Paul Douglas, CareerEquity: 10:05

We have to put something in place to actually allow us to see what's happening. Who got the money, who was placed, who was trained, who needs wraparound services? Do they get it in time, like all those things we talk about, is it can no longer be tracked in a very fragmented way. We have to create more continuity, more accountability, more transparency for those things to happen.

Jen Szaro, AESP: 10:19

Yeah, I'm so impressed with what you've done there and it's such an amazing tool to be using.

Jen Szaro, AESP: 10:24

The one piece I remember you showing me was about mentoring within organizations to help people truly onboard with those organizations and you know, have a peer that they can ask those hard questions to about the culture, or you know just what the norms are socially within that organization.

Jen Szaro, AESP: 10:40

I mean, for me, let's talk about the importance of mentorship in our efforts AESP really focuses on this into bringing the next generation in. We try to pair our emerging professionals up with, you know, our industry veterans, help them understand what it takes to get to that job level and how they grow their careers and help them sort of map that out. And you're kind of doing the same thing, you know, with your tool, but in within these organizations themselves, and to me this not only really helps get people comfortable with being within the industry but it also really helps pass that institutional knowledge you know down effectively, because we do have a lot of folks retiring from the industry, especially the utility sector. We're losing that institutional knowledge and so you need both how to think forward as well as how to learn from the past and tell me how mentoring can really help with that.

Paul Douglas, CareerEquity: 11:30

So I look at mentoring as maybe personally, I think it's the only way that you can develop and grow. I think if you talk to most successful people in life, whatever they define as success, they had a mentor along the way, whether it's sports, whether it's business, whether it's home, whether it's being a parent. Like we're asking for advice all the time and no one does it alone. And I think we're expecting people to come into this industry alone without advice, without mentorship. And it's funny, the more folks I've talked to that's been in this space for a while, they said I didn't learn anything watching videos and LMS and reading. I learned it by doing.

Paul Douglas, CareerEquity: 12:02

Yeah absolutely so. I think there is a significant opportunity to align more mentorship programs within the sector. I'll give you guys a few data points. The most successful companies that retain their employees have mentorship programs. The Googles, the Amazons, the Facebooks. They have mentorship and they do that because there's a psychological value there. If I'm mentoring Jen and I'm the leader for Jen, the job is no longer about the job. The job is about how can I ensure Jen can be successful. So it's a missed opportunity if you're an employer and absolutely if you're a mentee. That's how you learn. Till this day, I sit down with someone every week or every couple of weeks to learn from them and I think sometimes, being a mentor, you actually learn more. That's the irony of the whole.

Jen Szaro, AESP: 12:43

Thing.

Paul Douglas, CareerEquity: 12:43

Because you realize all the stuff you're not doing.

Jen Szaro, AESP: 12:49

I love. I've mentored people and I've been mentored and it's so neat to see people that I've mentored now that are in the industry and they're professionals and they are now the mentor to the next generation. You know, how do we keep that going to really ensure that transfer of knowledge continues and that people find their way through the industry effectively so they're not getting stuck, let's say, in a customer service role or a marketing entry-level position, but they're actually finding a path forward within this industry. It's growing, as you can see. We have over 40,000 people here at just this one conference. It's growing faster than we can even imagine. So how do we keep pulling people into this and keep growing that next generation?

Paul Douglas, CareerEquity: 13:27

There's a couple of potential bottlenecks because, when it comes to we talked a little bit about diversity and DEI there's not a lot of diverse employees in this space, right, I think the numbers in mid-teens. So when you go to mentorship, sometimes folks that are being mentored like to be mentored by folks that have similar experiences, similar backgrounds. So that's a gap for us that we need to fix. Number two is we want to assign mentors that can have honest, candid conversation. Right, I mean, again, I try to be as candid as I can.

Paul Douglas, CareerEquity: 13:59

Sometimes I can't tell my boss that, hey, at home I literally don't have enough money to get to work or I have a mental health issue. So I look at a mentor as not someone that I have a formal conversation with. It's someone that I can really tell what's going on in my life and where I need the most help. And when you talk about helping underrepresented communities and disadvantaged communities, you need to have a real conversation with these individuals. It's not a formal HR in the office conversation. It's a sometimes, I hate to say, like off the record conversation, like hey, tell me what's really going on. So the mentorship also has to be a candid, transparent, authentic mentorship. That has to happen. But again, I think this is a program that some tend to look over and it's such a critical inflection point to retain people and allow more diverse candidates into your company.

Jen Szaro, AESP: 14:38

Yeah, I think you can easily get people in. Well, I wouldn't say easily, because you still have to struggle to find people but it's retention too, and I think that's where mentorship plays the most important role. It's retention too, and I think that's where mentorship plays the most important role. It's on retention Growing that next generation, keeping them engaged in this industry so they don't go to telecom or go to something else. It's building the community and building the relationships. To me that really matters.

Paul Douglas, CareerEquity: 15:01

And I'll give a good example. We work with another utility where part of the onboarding was well… we'll have them talk to a mentor every two weeks and we'll have them talk to their manager. But we actually had the mentor talk to the manager and the employee. So once a month, every three weeks, we'll get all three together and have a conversation, because sometimes the mentor was actually able to give and articulate the message in a more formal way than the candidate was, but we got the point across. So, whether it's training, whether they need help with something, so the mentor again and the manager if you can create that tripod of a conversation, that's something we've seen a lot of success in. That's such a great idea.

Jen Szaro, AESP: 15:36

Yeah, look, I love bringing them together because there are things you don't want to say to your supervisor but need to be said. Of course, you know you need help and you don't know how to ask for it. Even I think it's really important. So how do we move forward? To me, it's not even a question. It is important to build an inclusive culture for this industry Within the clean energy sector. I think it's the area of highest growth in the energy sector. We've got so much opportunity. For me, I feel like we've missed the mark. Still. It's getting better, but we still miss the mark. What are the specific steps that organizations can take to change this? How would you advise an organization to truly reach out and become a more inclusive organization if they're starting at kind of everyone looks the same?

Paul Douglas, CareerEquity: 16:26

So I think most companies make decisions based on their bottom line. So is it profitable? Is it net income? So I think understanding that is key. And their bottom line so is it profitable, is it net income? So I think understanding that is key.

Paul Douglas, CareerEquity: 16:33

And I speak to a lot of CEOs in rooms and I tell them the first company to be the most inclusive will be the most successful. When you look at pure data and pure analytics and census data, that's the demographics we're hiring from. So right now it's still a little bit of a choice. In 5, 10, 15 years it won't be a choice to be inclusive, it's just the way that the census is moving. So companies that can really take a step back and look at the data, look at the census, look at the demographics and say, hey, right now we're not, and kind of almost admit it to themselves we're not diverse. We have to get there. That's the first step I see there's an opportunity to make.

Paul Douglas, CareerEquity: 17:07

Second, it's looking at if we do have diverse folks. Are they leaving? Because I think we're quick to always say, hey, let's attract all these new people into the industry, but reality is we have people that are leaving constantly. It just becomes a constant churn. So, really looking at, if folks are leaving, why are they leaving? What do we need to change today?

Paul Douglas, CareerEquity: 17:26

First step we need to take Community culture. I mean they call it, they say DEI training, but I mean I say just, really just go ask the folks that work for your company, like, hey, we need to retain folks. What are we doing and how can we do it more effectively? So that's the first step to take. The next step is when you look at where do we go? Everyone tends to go to Indeed, linkedin, ziprecruiter. We go to the same places to find people over and over and over again and we say, well, we can't find diversity. So we have to change the strategy of how we find people and where we find people. I'll give you guys a hint that I've seen a lot of companies do. It's also who's doing the recruiting.

Jen Szaro, AESP: 18:03

Yeah, I mean, I've seen that play out.

Paul Douglas, CareerEquity: 18:06

If you have a non-diverse recruiting team. Sometimes it's a little bit harder to have a diverse recruiting team. Sometimes it's a little bit harder to have a diverse recruiting strategy.

Jen Szaro, AESP: 18:13

I think there's trust issues, sometimes too honestly. So I think how you've got to think about that and really be proactive and intentional with the whole hiring process, from start to finish.

Paul Douglas, CareerEquity: 18:24

I agree. And when I say diverse team, it could be. I've seen that sometimes mom's going to have a different conversation with another mom yeah, absolutely, I've seen young recruiters, old recruiters, have different conversations. So I think it's really looking at the team that's bringing folks into your organization and can they have the conversation needed to bring folks in. The last thing I think also when it comes to inclusivity, is in this sector, what I love the most is you actually do have an opportunity to impact the community we come from. Yeah, right, and I don't think we tell that story enough. Like, this job that you can have is not just another job. If you do your job right, you can remember that time when you had to not buy X because the energy bill was too high. That's the problem and I don't think we tell that story enough that the folks that are coming in, and I think we can get more diversity if we really share the value proposition to this job.

Jen Szaro, AESP: 19:12

I love that. Yeah, I mean, energy burden is continuing to be an issue for the communities that Justice 40 is trying to serve, and yet somehow we're just not quite getting there with it. Well, I know we've got to wrap up, so you know, just before we do that, could you just share for me because you've always inspired me your vision for the future of workforce development and clean energy? You know, considering all the funds that are being poured into this and the growth rates that we're seeing across the board on all clean technologies, I always like to maybe share a quick story.

Paul Douglas, CareerEquity: 19:44

So my first job out of school, I was a recruiter and I had a lady that she got a job and the job was paying at that point maybe $8.56, from what I recall, and she filled out her paperwork and she called back the next day and she goes hey, paul, is there any way that I can make $9.50? Do you know why she needed to make $9.50, jen? Why do you think?

Jen Szaro, AESP: 20:05

No idea, that's a. That's a strange request. It's very specific.

Paul Douglas, CareerEquity: 20:09

It felt strange when I was 21,. But she said, paul, that's what I need to go get approved for a mortgage, wow. So I always share that story and that's why I do what I do today because these jobs, the opportunity that this energy transition can offer us, it can switch generational wealth. People can buy a home. Once she buys a home, her kids go to a different school. Her kids go to a different school, they get a degree. It changes the generational curse in some communities and that's the problem we're solving and that's what we don't talk about often. So back to what do I envision? I envision this opportunity really impacting the communities that need it the most and I think, if we can find them better jobs, we can support small business. We talk about it, but I think we have to make sure that it's being done. So I'm excited for that vision for the future.

Jen Szaro, AESP: 20:57

Thank you so much, really appreciate your time and we're going to wrap it up again Thank you to the Power Up Live podcast and to Watzilla for hosting us and sponsoring, and thanks to the Suncast Media team as well for having us here.

Paul Douglas, CareerEquity: 21:10

Thank you, Jen. I appreciate it. Thank you next time.