From Trials to Triumph: Angie Bivens on Resilience, Leadership and the Emerging Professionals' Journey

Jen Szaro: 0:07

Hi there and welcome back to the Energy Beat podcast. I'm your host, Jen Szaro. Today, we're going to try something different. I'll be turning over the microphone to Ian Perterer, aesp Senior Manager of Marketing and Communications, and he'll be speaking with Angie Bibbins, the Outreach Manager at Franklin Energy, and reaching people is definitely something Angie's great at. If you haven't had the chance to meet Angie, you're in for a treat. She really knows how to create a buzz on social media. So have a listen as Angie and Ian talk through her unique journey to becoming a clean energy professional. I hope you enjoy.

Ian Perterer: 0:51

So thank you everybody for joining me. I am Ian Perterer. I am the Senior Manager of Marketing and Communications. I'm here with Angie Bivens of Franklin Energy. Hi, angie, thank you so much for joining us.

Angie Bivens: 1:06

Hi, ian, and thank you for having me on. I'm super excited to be here today.

Ian Perterer: 1:11

I know. I first got a chance to meet you at our annual conference in New Orleans and I got to say you've got such an infectious personality that it's just it's hard not to smile when I'm talking to you.

Angie Bivens: 1:25

Well, awesome. I was hoping my smile was portraying through my voice, so if that's working, everybody that watches should be smiling right along with us.

Ian Perterer: 1:33

They better be. I hope they're listening to it on a weekend or at least a leisurely morning or something like that. So let's go ahead and let's start with like the nuts and bolts of our conversation. First, let's tell the audience a little bit about yourself. Tell them about your employer, franklin Energy, what they do in the energy space, and then also tell us what you do at Franklin Energy.

Angie Bivens: 1:56

Well, do, well, do so. I work directly for Franklin Energy and Franklin Energy is an energy management and energy program resource to utilities, municipalities, businesses and customers across the nation. So we work in various states and I am in the mighty huge state of Delaware. The organization that has hired Franklin Energy to do some of their programming is called Energize Delaware and I'm an outreach manager with Franklin on behalf of Energize Delaware and my main role is to do community outreach, community engagement, and I oversee a program it's an LMI low to moderate income program that just helps families and individuals in their homes to save on their energy bill. So I have the best job on the planet.

Ian Perterer: 2:46

Oh, I love it. I absolutely love it and also very important to know the tax-free state of Delaware.

Angie Bivens: 2:54

Yes.

Ian Perterer: 2:55

Thank you.

Angie Bivens: 2:56

Clark for Delaware.

Ian Perterer: 2:58

Yes, look, if you're ever there and you're ever driving through, stop by and do some shopping.

Angie Bivens: 3:03

Yes, stop at the beaches, then you get the beach and you get the tax-free shopping. It's amazing.

Ian Perterer: 3:08

Yes exactly so. One of the things that struck me when I got the chance to meet with you at annual conference is you won our Emerging Professional of the Year award. And for the listeners who don't know, every year AESP releases a series of awards called the Energy Awards to recognize outstanding members, outstanding projects, really the movers and shakers in our little AESP world who are doing incredible things, whether that be a project or just a career story or a plan. That we think is inspiring. So AESP's definition of an emerging professional I think is kind of interesting, right in the energy space, or really maybe even larger than the energy space, because it really doesn't have anything to do with age If you stop and think about it.

Ian Perterer: 4:02

A lot of times when you hear emerging professionals you're talking lists that tell you the top 25 professionals under 25 or the 30 under 30 or the 40 under 40. And our definition really has nothing to do with that. It has nothing to do with your age or how long you've been out of college. It's really all about wherever in your life journey you are, how deep or how much time have you spent in the energy industry. So you're not at 25 under 25. You're not at 30 under 30. You fall in that not traditionally thought of category of emerging professional Right. So tell us about your backstory and how you wound up in the energy industry.

Angie Bivens: 4:46

Thank you for that. Now everybody's like, oh my gosh, how old is she? No, I definitely would be barely under the 40, under 40. I am turning 40 this year, but, most importantly, don't look like it. So that's the goal.

Angie Bivens: 5:02

But my backstory actually started just not in a good light, Unfortunately. I was a very young mom and I had small children. I was actually married and unfortunately I was in a bit of an abusive relationship. So I found myself with all these small kids needing to get out, needing to start my life over, and I had one major hindrance to getting a new place and that was my energy bill. At the time, the youngest child I had recently just had had some heart conditions. I know it's like all this stuff got piled on top of me, but you know that's when you get the best story out of it. When you got to fight your way out a little bit. So a youngest baby had a heart condition, I wasn't able to work and my energy bill just kept going up sky high, literally. I still have that bill. It was over $1,600. And they were like either pay it or returning it off, and so at the time I went through, found as many resources on my own, as I could worked everything out.

Angie Bivens: 6:06

Long story short, I ended up getting it back on, but that led to a new passion for me, and that was just a passion for helping people. So I ended up going into the nonprofit realm. I did a lot of things there and then one day I remember being in a workshop teaching people about lead and different things how to avoid that in their homes and somebody was like you should be an energy educator. And I just looked at them. I was like that's not a real thing, is it? Is that a job? And they were like yeah, you just go around and teach people how to lower their energy usage. And I've been there ever since and have loved it amazingly. So I actually fell into the industry on accident, but with a lot of purpose.

Ian Perterer: 6:53

Wow. I think that's a really true story for so many individuals out there. There are some of us who wanted to work in industry this industry, it's always been our passion and then there are some people who come to our industry you know, from other industries or other life situations and end up falling in love with it. I think that is very much the story of emerging professionals like you and like me. I think I've slightly aged out of ASP's definition of emerging professionals. I've been in the industry for seven years now and I think we consider it five and under, so I'm just aged out of it, but the memories are still fresh, so I know exactly what you're talking about.

Angie Bivens: 7:35

Love it and I will never call you a middle age professional, don't worry, just kidding.

Ian Perterer: 7:40

Well, like you said, as long as you don't look like it.

Angie Bivens: 7:43

No, that's right.

Ian Perterer: 7:45

So now you tell us a little bit about your backstory when you're entering the industry. You know what. What tools did you have at your disposal? I mean, what were you able to grasp that helped make a positive difference in your ability to get up to speed?

Angie Bivens: 8:01

Yeah. So, as far as the resources out there, I definitely, when I came in, like I said, I was pretty much green, so I needed to get caught up as quick as possible. The first place, I went to the Internet. Right, I went to all the trusted online resources. So I started with the one resource that I was like can't be wrong, it's got to be right. I went to energygov, literally just started tearing through everything, and that led me to the BPA and BPI websites, which help with some of the overall technical terms and the technical stuff, all the things that I felt like I was swimming in at home. Once I got through a lot of the online stuff, I was like, all right, I need more detailed, I need to understand. I got in.

Angie Bivens: 8:49

I got involved with an energy council here in Delaware. There was some policy changes happening and we they had started up a council. So I was in these council meetings and again I'm hearing these terms flying around and I'm like, ok, I know none of these acronyms, I don't know what's going on. So that's when I started turning from the Internet to going to local trusted resources I could find. So, along with the council members, some of them I would reach out to get information.

Angie Bivens: 9:18

I also, in Philly, shout out to ECA, the energy coordinating agency. I was able to get in contact with them and I have to give them credit. There was a young lady there named BJ and BJ did all of their workshops and to this day I can say she helped lay a great foundation for me on how to deliver a workshop, how to work the community. And another great place where I was able to get some resources was right internal when I got hired with Franklin. Franklin had a lot of online resources, videos, different things I could watch and learn. So all of that just mainly a lot of research myself and dealing with those who are already in the industry.

Ian Perterer: 10:01

That's great.

Ian Perterer: 10:02

I think that's something that we don't hear a lot about in the education discourse in our industry that when we're talking to emerging professionals, a lot of the emphasis that we place is some of the things that you did right, going to the BPA, bpi website, going to energygov, these sorts of things but you don't really hear a lot of us telling people we'll go get involved in these local organizations.

Ian Perterer: 10:29

I think that's a really nice nugget that we could take out of this conversation that we could share with any emerging professional really is to not just keep it to the internet at the national level. That there are a lot of local organizations that you know, in addition to putting it in a local context, can really help you build up a network of peers as well as a network of local knowledge. That probably will help get you more nuance and up to speed in some of the more wonky areas, should we say, than maybe doing just an internet search or reading a blog post or something like that. So I think that's a really great idea of something that any emerging professional can use, right.

Angie Bivens: 11:15

Agreed, agreed. Yeah, it's definitely. It does something for you. You're right, it's one thing to hear this term or to do some research online and find out about it, but when you can actually see how it's working in your state or how something that you looked up is being utilized by others within your local area, it helps solidify things for you and then it opens those creative doors for you also.

Ian Perterer: 11:41

So now I want to ask you about the flip side. You know so those are the things that helped you, but are there barriers Whether that you know, access or professional development, or if there are personal barriers, what are the barriers that a person, an emerging professional like yourself, had to overcome? That maybe, whether it's a utility or a solution provider, that these employers are not really considering or thinking about?

Angie Bivens: 12:07

Yeah. So that actually is a very good one and one that I would love to tackle because the barriers, you know, I'd hate to think that someone would run from a job in this field thinking, oh well, you know, I'm just not qualified for this, so this is over my head or this is this like, like no, the barriers within the field are overcomeable. The first barrier for me, biggest one probably, and I've said it already a few times were the terms, the jargon, the industry lingo as it is, a lot of the acronyms and stuff. And when I began to hear people talking like, oh wait, energy efficiency is way too technical For me, I don't think I can do this, I'm not an engineer and it scared me. But once I began to learn the basics, it put everything else into play for me. And then another big thing around that was what I said a moment ago having finding mentors, finding those that could bring something so big some of these terms down to a bite-sized level for me were really important.

Angie Bivens: 13:09

Another barrier or concern that I had was just finding my own voice, my own pathway in energy efficiency. When I first came in, like I said, I was offered the energy educator role and I wasn't sure about that. But then I began to do more research and find out what roles were available. I found out that pretty much I'm not going to say everything, but whatever you're currently doing, there is probably a role for it within energy efficiency in some way, shape or form. So I had found out different pathways and I'm still, even now, researching.

Angie Bivens: 13:45

And the good thing about this field is because it's growing and it's changing.

Angie Bivens: 13:49

You may have an opportunity to build your own position, so I love that about it.

Angie Bivens: 13:54

But it can seem like a barrier at first, especially if you're used to being doing one specific thing or doing it one specific way.

Angie Bivens: 14:02

And lastly, another big barrier or concern that I had was diversity. So you can't see me, but I often call myself a unicorn just because I am a young professional and I am black in this field. So I feel myself in a lot of situations where no one looked like me and it was a concern. The one thing I can say is, since seeing that I try to be this champion right, anytime I meet a female looking for a position, anytime I meet any person of color that's looking for a position, I'm like have you considered energy efficiency, so being a spokesperson there, but also joining certain associations. I'm now about to join the Abe group as the American Association of Blacks and Energy, but this group was amazing to find because I met so many other individuals in the field and it overcame that barrier and also gave me even more of a push, or ignited more of a fire, to do more and to encourage more diversity in the field.

Ian Perterer: 15:08

Yeah, that's a great perspective. I think diversity, equity and inclusion obviously a big focus at AESP, but I'm so glad that there are so many groups out there in the energy space so that if you are looking for something specific to help you out in your unique circumstance, there's always a home to go to and if you have a chance, anyone who's listening definitely go check out Abe. That's A-A-B-E. They're a fantastic organization and AESP we've collaborated with them several times and intend to do so in the future. They're doing really, really wonderful work. So I think those are some great barriers or ever great, but they're good to point out. They are something that you would not consider, I think, especially if you're coming out of college, let's say, and you're probably the first time on the job, you're not really aware of these things, but they are forefront concerns, especially if you have had prior lives, prior occupations. Like you are well aware of the dynamics that happen in the workplace, and so that has to be something that is absolutely forefront in your mind.

Angie Bivens: 16:14

Well, said well said.

Ian Perterer: 16:16

Speaking of prior lives, yes, prior lives. Nothing sorted, I promise. But when we're thinking about emerging professionals who are coming to us from other industries, other lives, not necessarily out of college or graduate school, you're talking about a great and, I think, underutilized group of individuals who bring with them a wealth of knowledge from prior working experiences, prior personal experiences. What are some of the skills from your prior work lives that you brought with you, and how can someone who's looking to be a mentor or supervisor bring out those nuggets of knowledge or those skills? How can they best help energize you to put those skills to work?

Angie Bivens: 17:10

So I'd start with the fact that any good mentor or any good supervisor should start by basically taking an inventory of you and what your skills are. Over your expertise, like I said a moment ago, I'm sure there is a place within the energy industry where you can be utilized. My background was in marketing, community engagement, even also working with children, and so when I started in this role, I felt like, oh, I don't know how much these skills are going to take play into energy, and at first it was minimal. It was a bit more minimal at first, but now do workshops with children. I do the marketing and engagement for the different events that we have coming up.

Angie Bivens: 17:56

So, as far as being a mentor and a supervisor, just a few things that I would give suggestions to with that are just to make sure you've got really good two-way communication with the young professional that you're working with. Also, make sure that you're creating a supportive environment, right, what skills do they currently have? What skills do they want to work towards? And then let's leverage any curiosity and passions they have. That's really important. Even me myself as a manager, I'm constantly talking with those that work with me like, hey, how are you feeling about your role. Is there anything else I can do to help you feel more secure in the role? Do you have any goals, visions, dreams for your role? So just that constant working on it and working with them.

Ian Perterer: 18:47

Yeah, that's a really fantastic point of view to have and I think it's something that takes intentional work right. If you think about it, it's so very easy, whether to be a mentor or a supervisor. It's very easy to fall into that sort of call and response dynamic of feedback, where it's the conversation as you walk into a room or you press the join button on your teams and the first thing is like, well, what do you have for me this week? And it's just like what are the problems? Let's fix that. And it's so easy to fall into that trap, right. So it's good to point that out just to really get the most out of your mentor or your supervisor relationship, to really have those more high level conversations, even if they don't happen every week, just to make sure you work them in right.

Angie Bivens: 19:37

Oh, yeah, definitely, definitely.

Ian Perterer: 19:40

And then I guess this is kind of a natural flow is to just then what really does make the difference between a good supervisor and a great supervisor of an emerging professional. Because I know a lot of people who will say, oh, I'm a good supervisor, or they think they're a good supervisor. Of course, we always all have room for improvement, but what does it take to be a great supervisor of an emerging professional from your perspective?

Angie Bivens: 20:08

So in my perspective, there is definitely a difference, definitely a difference. I can say that in my many years of working, I've had many different types of managers, many different types of management style, and even me myself in being a manager. At different times I've tried out different styles to see what worked, and I can say the one thing I noticed is that a good manager just good they do the necessary job of managing your ability to do a job well. So if you've got a good manager, they're going to make sure you're doing your job again. Well, it's being done.

Angie Bivens: 20:44

But I feel like a great manager takes it up a notch and now they're leading and guiding you in order to not just do your job well, but they really want you to be an inspiration. They want you to go beyond your current talents. They want to see you progress into the type of professional that other people are looking at and going. I want to be like them. I want to do like them.

Angie Bivens: 21:06

It's almost like if I were to go back. My very first job was McDonald's. So if I were to go back to McDonald's, the good managers at McDonald's make sure you know how to do your job. You're a good worker, you're flipping the burgers, you're ringing up the food properly, you're good. A great manager is going to teach you and educate you to the point where you become the owner, you become the manager, you become the top person, but they're actually supervising you in mind with pushing you as far as you want to go, as far as your career will take you. And great managers, or great supervisors, they show that and I feel like you also see that in the workforce that they have.

Ian Perterer: 21:51

Yeah, I can say that I kind of almost got a little bit of some goosebumps when you were telling me that, because I've always sat there and thought my job is to make sure my employees don't get stable, and that's kind of how I've always thought about it for myself is to always make sure I'm pushing them forward, and I've always had this conversation when do you want to end up? I'll help you get there, even if it's not with this company, I don't care what it is, let me know. Let's work towards that, because I tend to find you get better performance when there is a desired state, or at the end of this journey, or there's a light at the end of the tunnel. You are absolutely right.

Angie Bivens: 22:30

I literally was just having this conversation with one of my co-workers because I have been encouraging the co-worker to go towards management and I was like, look, it's kind of time You've been doing a great job where you're at, but I need you to grow. And they were kind of giving me some pushback like no, I like what I'm doing, I like where I'm at, blah, blah, blah. And I was like, okay, all right. And I just literally sat down with them and was like, okay, I need you to look at it like this. What if I said that years ago, If I myself had said, ah, I'm good where I'm at, I don't want to be a manager?

Angie Bivens: 23:06

I was like then I wouldn't be your manager. And then how would you feel? And they began to think about it. I was like now you could be holding up the next amazing person that's behind you because you feel like you're not ready, even though he totally is and he's already doing the job. And then, when he really started to think about it that way, he realized how the majority of his reasoning was very selfish and he has that right to be a feel like, but very selfish and he realized how it was pushing him out of his own thoughts and he came back and was, like you know, not smiling about it. It was like thank you, your words were correct.

Jen Szaro: 23:44

I'm going to go ahead with it.

Angie Bivens: 23:46

You know it was one of those. I accepted, you know, and that was part of my role of being a great supervisor. I could have been good and said you know what, fine, if you don't want to, that's okay, but as his supervisor, I'm seeing that he's growing and he was about to just stop his own growth. So, you know, it's that little push that takes you from good to great and then you make great people as well.

Ian Perterer: 24:10

I think that could even just be the theme of this podcast episode from good to great. That kind of wraps it up right there. Well, I want to thank you for hopping on with me today, but I want to end with like a few personal questions. It's a rapid fire so that the audience gets to know you a little bit better, and also when you're listening out there, if you want to connect with Angie, you can go find her on LinkedIn or TikTok.

Ian Perterer: 24:34

That energy girl. We got a TikTok queen in the house, so go look up Angie Bivens. That's A-N-G-A-N-G-I-E, bivens-b-i-v-e-n-s at Franklin Energy. So let's hop right into it. First question what motivates you to get out of bed in the morning?

Angie Bivens: 24:52

Oh, this one's easy and you are going to get the blunt and honest truth. What motivates me to get out of bed every morning and don't go scared on me. Everybody. It might sound cheesy, but it's my children. And the reason is not my children just because, oh, my God, mommy loves you so much. That's true, let's not get that twisted. I do do what I do to make sure they're supported, because, my God, they can eat. But it's my children, because I really do see the world through them. I am a mother of four and I know somebody's going to sit up and do the math on me. Yes, I was a teen parent.

Angie Bivens: 25:27

The reason why I see the world through the eyes of my children is because of their ages. I have one at every level of schooling. I've got 24 and then I've got another adult, I've got a high schooler and then I've got an elementary child. But by having each of their views, I see the world through each of them and it always is a constant reminder that I got to push harder.

Angie Bivens: 25:47

I've got my adult daughter, who's in the workforce. She's actually coming out of the National Guard, but she's got a lot going on and I'm like, oh my gosh, you have to deal with this world. And then all the way down to my baby girl and I'm like what kind of world will it be for you if people like me aren't using our passion in order to do something great? So they're my motivation every day. When I'm tired, when I'm like, oh, I don't think I can go one more day, I need a nap. I'm like, nope, my kids, future generations, they need not just me, but they need everything going on in this industry right now. So I got to push a little bit harder.

Ian Perterer: 26:25

That's so sweet. Oh my gosh. Now next rapid fire question what is your guilty pleasure? One guilty pleasure, something that would actually you'd be at least mildly embarrassed. I'll say like, oh, my guilty pleasure is ice cream.

Angie Bivens: 26:39

Oh yeah, no, it's a guilty pleasure and hopefully no one comes after me for this. First thing that comes to mind is probably cartoons. So when I unwind, when I want to be done for the day cartoons, bob's Burgers, the Simpsons, any animated show I will sponge Bob, whatever is fun. But for that amount of time I don't have to focus on work. I'm not focused on stress or issues of life, I am just laughing at nonsense. So that is probably my guiltyest pleasure that at any moment my kids will pop into my room and I'm just like dropping the remote Like no, I wasn't, I wasn't watching, like fish tails, what are you talking about? I don't know what's going on.

Ian Perterer: 27:27

I. Actually we have something in common I've watched Bob's Burgers every evening before my favorite. Yes and then. So one rapid fire industry question for you, and this is a Sophie's choice. So if you could choose one thing, and only one thing, to change about the energy industry, only one, what would it be?

Angie Bivens: 27:47

Oh my gosh. So just one thing that I would change. Okay, I'm probably going to get shot for this one too. It's the acronyms. Can we please must everything be abbreviated to? You know, if all the letters of this acronym spell out a sentence, it's too long. It is too long. So that's probably. I know to some they're probably think, oh, that's not even that bad. There's some real issues we could get rid of. It's just annoying to me, as soon as I feel like I've learned a lot of the acronyms, people will start in the middle of a conversation throwing out new ones and I just have to be like, okay, stop what is in PPSQRT. I'm sorry, I know it's probably trivial to something like you're going to pick something bigger, but that is a pet peeve for me.

Ian Perterer: 28:33

Well, I got to say there is a new acronym every minute. I will say Well, angie, I want to say thank you for joining us and I hope our listeners will take a chance to look you up and connect with you and learn more about your amazing story and learn more in their spare time about the great tax-free state of Delaware.

Angie Bivens: 28:54

Well, I thank you so much for having me on. Thank you to you personally for being an amazing host on today.

Ian Perterer: 29:01

You've been great.

Angie Bivens: 29:02

Look, we've both just been grinning. Our cheeks are going to hurt after. But also thank you to AESP for the opportunity. Still love the award. Look, it's right around here somewhere. I got to find it, but it's on this messy desk of mine right now. How much I love it. As soon as I came home with it I bragged to everybody about it. But more so for the opportunities and everything that AESP is doing. Thank you guys as well.

Ian Perterer: 29:28

Thank you so much and I look forward to talking to you again soon.

Angie Bivens: 29:32

All right, we'll do have a great one, and thanks. Bye.